tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590322.post114554994701969846..comments2023-09-24T03:09:02.536-05:00Comments on Grace For Life: Tithing RevisitedTerry Rayburnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00722632954331009294noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590322.post-45241820556881817102009-11-18T07:39:39.549-06:002009-11-18T07:39:39.549-06:00Thanks a million, Daniel.
Giving from the heart w...Thanks a million, Daniel.<br /><br />Giving from the heart without compulsion is a beautiful thing.<br /><br />Twisting the Scripture to enable compulsion isn't.<br /><br />Blessings,<br />TerryTerry Rayburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00888533194435826837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590322.post-36643062325125275402009-11-18T05:32:07.467-06:002009-11-18T05:32:07.467-06:00terry,
i love this post and the clarification co...terry, <br /><br />i love this post and the clarification comment (reply to dennis). i've long believed that tithing is not part of the new covenant but to this day i still deal with residual pain the legalism of tithing has exacted on me (i grew up taught that tithing is a MUST). by God's grace i'm still learning what it is to give cheerfully and abundantly in response to God's blesing and love and not because of any supposed law. <br /><br />thanks for this post. keep the faith.<br /><br />danAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590322.post-81275171377089084832009-06-13T15:06:47.370-05:002009-06-13T15:06:47.370-05:00Dennis,
Thanks for the comments.
1. You wrote, &...Dennis,<br /><br />Thanks for the comments.<br /><br />1. You wrote, <i>"I think we need caution, lest we find ourselves practicing ultra-dispensationalism in thinking Christ's teaching on the other side of Calvary doesn't apply."</i><br /><br />We can be assured that Jesus taught obedience by the Jews to the ENTIRE Old Covenant, including animal sacrifices (which sacrifices I'm sure you would reject).<br /><br />We must "rightly divide the Word", not through ultra-dispensationalism (I'm not a dispensationalist), but through understanding that the Old Covenant is obsolete, along with the Israelite tithing system.<br /><br /><br />2. You wrote, <i>"He [Jesus] clearly taught and practiced tithing."</i><br /><br />He "clearly taught" tithing for those to whom it applied (those under the Mosaic Covenant who had agricultural "produce" to tithe -- the tithe was never money). But where do you see that He "clearly...PRACTICED" tithing?<br /><br />He had no "produce" to tithe, though He certainly would have paid the Temple Tax, which was not biblical "tithe".<br /><br />3. You wrote, <i>"Tithing also was instituted before the law. Abraham practiced it and he is extolled as a model for us in numerous NT texts. Hebrews 7 should be studied in this light...."</i><br /><br />Abraham voluntarily gave a tenth of the spoils of a battle to the king of Salem, once! <br /><br />But this was neither a command of God, nor a norm of any kind, nor a tenth of all of Abrahams produce, nor anything like the kind of club that Pastors routinely club over the heads of their sheep, often under the threatened "curse" of Malachi.<br /><br />All due respect, Dennis, but this is not evidential exegesis, but weak rationalization.<br /><br />Hebrews 7 has nothing to do with teaching tithing, it has to do with who gives honor to whom, using Abrahams gift and the Levitical priesthood as examples.<br /><br />Hebrews 8 then follows, clearly stating that the Old Covenant (the only covenant commanding tithing produce) is obsolete, replaced by the New Covenant.<br /><br />4. Know this: As soon as you command your sheep to do what the Bible does not command them to do, you put them under condemnation. This puts them under Legalism, and this quenches the Holy Spirit in those weak enough to fall under that Legalism.<br /><br />A perfect example of, not just "the letter kills", but a poorly exegeted "letter" at that.<br /><br />Trust God, the Holy Spirit, to work in the sheep "both to will and to do for His good pleasure" in the area of giving, and you will see real giving and real blessing.Terry Rayburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00888533194435826837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590322.post-51959379699569230142009-06-13T13:45:55.394-05:002009-06-13T13:45:55.394-05:00There certainly is room for disagreement here. So ...There certainly is room for disagreement here. So trying not to sound judgmental: I have no problem with people sincerely interpreting the principle of tithing as you do. If it's a biblical conviction, fine. Trouble is most I've talked to in 30 years of pastoral ministry are simply looking for a loophole for stinginess, and are only cheerful in non-giving. I think we need caution, lest we find ourselves practicing ultra-dispensationalism in thinking Christ's teaching on the other side of Calvary doesn't apply. He clearly taught and practiced tithing. So what would Jesus do becomes a moot point unless Paul specifically restated it? Is that the theology presented here? Just wondering. Tithing also was instituted before the law. Abraham practiced it and he is extolled as a model for us in numerous NT texts. Hebrews 7 should be studied in this light and indeed the entire thrust of the epistle. We don't want to go back to legalism. We want to elevate the standard where it requires the grace of giving to enable us to do supernaturally what we could never do ourselves (2 Cor 7-8). Jesus did that with the law. In the Sermon on the Mount, He would say, "You have heard...but I say..." And in every case He raised the bar and got to the inner motivation rather than the legal requirement. Grace isn't freedom to do what we want, but the power to do what we ought. As my mentor, the late Stephen Olford said, "God demands the tithe, but He deserves the offering." 10% is just a starting point. If a believer can't give at that level, then he or she hasn't been a good steward of what they have. For many of us, to give only a tithe is stinginess. So, we may agree to disagree. But my young son who just earned his first income from mowing a lady's yard will tithe tomorrow and be blessed because of it. Just a thought.Dennis Thurmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03441516250465226543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590322.post-2656791514628935842009-06-13T10:35:15.937-05:002009-06-13T10:35:15.937-05:00I liked the post. Thought provoking. I'm a lit...I liked the post. Thought provoking. I'm a little sorry to hear the kind of responses that you get from a topic like this. Love is taught in both testaments, after all.Emanuelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09220731353318612162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590322.post-1149258465533997402006-06-02T09:27:00.000-05:002006-06-02T09:27:00.000-05:00Great to see someone spilling the Truth about Tith...Great to see someone spilling the Truth about TithingPaladinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02209875048883281896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590322.post-1147487305233367312006-05-12T21:28:00.000-05:002006-05-12T21:28:00.000-05:00Hi Donny, Thanks for your comments. I like your b...Hi Donny, <BR/><BR/>Thanks for your comments. I like your blog(s).<BR/><BR/>TerryTerry Rayburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00888533194435826837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590322.post-1145641045136419142006-04-21T12:37:00.000-05:002006-04-21T12:37:00.000-05:00Steve,I agree with you. Doing church in simplicit...Steve,<BR/><BR/>I agree with you. Doing church in simplicity also is conducive to a size small enough to actually have the fellowship and "one anothers" that the church is called to.<BR/><BR/>Although I'm currently in a larger more conventional church (for reasons I won't bore you with), we have a small home fellowship which we often refer to as our "real" church.<BR/><BR/>I wrote wistfully on this subject <A HREF="http://www.graceforlife.com/2005/07/longings-for-simple-worship-and.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your comments.<BR/><BR/>TerryTerry Rayburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00888533194435826837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8590322.post-1145553740753386732006-04-20T12:22:00.000-05:002006-04-20T12:22:00.000-05:00Terry,Very well said. I, for one, believe that th...Terry,<BR/><BR/>Very well said. I, for one, believe that the current emphasis on tithing is driven by the necessity to have a constant source of funds to support the cost of "doing church". I think this emphasis is very misguided, and this is one of the supports I use for a more "simple church" approach.<BR/><BR/>How much more beneficial if we were able to give to actual ministry expenses rather than costs of expensive buildings, staff salaries, etc.<BR/><BR/>Just my opinion, of course :)<BR/><BR/>steve :)Steve Sensenighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04366847574145407186noreply@blogger.com